It’s been awhile, so it’s time for another Google Hangout with the Tavern guys. The Hangout will begin at 6PM EDT, August 20th/7AM KST, August 21st. We always aim for a 1 hour length, but pretty much always fail, so maybe 1 hour 30 minutes.
On this Hangout we will discuss:
- Next month’s Asian Games
- The upcoming season in Europe
- K League and AFC Champions League
- The coaching search for the next national team manager
As always you can watch live on Google here. There you can also participate live as we talk and send us messages (possibly, assuming I can figure out some of the more advanced features).
Or you can simply watch the video here on the Tavern.
Update> Taven Owner here. obviously if you tuned in, you will no doubt hear some crazy talk by the Tavern Owner – something on the lines of, “hey, Malky Mackaye is available- he’s not taking the Crystal Palace job, he hired Kimbo -why not Malky for KNT coach?” Sometime (I think) during the live Tavern Hangout event, the Daily Mail in the UK published a shocking expose of purported text messages between Iain Moody & Malky Mackaye that had quite a bit of bigotry in the exchanges -including racist comments directed at Kim Bo-Kyung. There’s more to the story -which we’ll get to in a later post, but back to the post Hangout – Jae informed me by twitter of the shocking revelations. In light of that, I’ll quote old Grandpa Simpson from the long running animation show, who after everyone laughs at his senility, laughs along, then sadly says: “…I’m a living joke.” Yes dear Tavern goers, that would be me. The timing of that article couldn’t have been better. Man, if there is a deity, he, she or it has played a good one on me.
Hi all,
I have a suggestion for a topic to bring up in future posts + google hangouts: racism in football, specifically towards Korean footballers in European clubs. I just ran across this 2013 article from the Telegraph about Ahn Jung Hwan confronting this issue: http://ow.ly/Aw0o2
I know that the word “racism” is pretty strong. I’ve read articles and opinions, though, about how it’s easy for a number of coaches/players/staff members of any given European football club to see Korean footballers as players with less strength, tenacity, things like that.
I said “a number of coaches/players/staff members” because obviously, not everyone thinks like this. Couldn’t such a perception of Korean footballers be one factor (of many I’m sure) that leads a Korean footballer to be on the bench or play a small number of games in a football season?
My hunch is that a Korean footballer who’s the only “foreign-looking” player in a European club would have a harder time dealing with those negative perceptions than, say, Koo JaCheol and Park JooHo, who are in Mainz 05 together.
I’m just starting to learn about what football organizations, like FIFA, are doing to address this issue. I have a lot of questions at the moment about it specifically regarding Korean footballers in European clubs, though.
For instance: How do they (especially players like Ki Sung Yueng/Yun SukYoung who are the only Koreans in their clubs) integrate themselves, socially + athletically, into their teams? (By the way, there’s an article from a few years back about Ki retaliating after encountering racist fans during his Celtic days: http://ow.ly/Aw1Hf)
How aware are the managers and coaches in these clubs of racism + other social issues that Korean footballers will likely deal with?
Thanks a lot for reading all of this.
An interesting (and important) topic. I don’t think it’ll make this Hangout, but in the future possibly, or at least a post can be written about it.
Good question and topic to discuss. Complicated issue and as you stated, the word “racism” is harsh in overall aspect (it certainly exist), players from outside of football powers certainly face prejudice and upheaval battle in Europe.
While I can’t go into full details (requires a long post) but in Germany/Bundesliga, the Asian players (Koreans and Japanese) certainly changed the overall perception into positive one.
IMO, it certainly exists and theres no way around it. The best way to deal with it is to play right through it ala Park Ji Sung. He probably ran into more racism than any KNT player since Cha BK. But he was unusual in that he just normally put his head down and persevered. You have to be mentally strong to make in the Euros as an Asian baller. You overcome it by playing out of your tree and silencing the critics. Guys like Ki, Son and LCY have probably overcome it, although it helps in Ki and Son’s case that they’re both fluent in English and German, respectively. Ki can also be belligerent in his own right.
And these players have forged the way for those two leagues. In Italy, knowing how ignorant people can be there, Im sure its still very pervasive. We just saw Pirlo thumb his knows at PJS in a very ignorant way…although he probably still harbors frustrations about 2002 as well.
Russia Im sure is another overtly racist league. Add Spain.
Bottomline the best way to shut them up is by playing through them. Its going to take time as we aren’t exactly pumping out 1st team caliber talent.
If you are wondering how the staff within the clubs view Asian players, here’s one example by Malkey Mackay. Of course, he’s just one example and doesn’t represent the whole but it’s a difficult task Asian players do go through in England.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2730307/Malky-Mackay-Iain-Moody-investigated-FA-sexist-racist-homophobic-text-messages-time-Cardiff.html
I just saw that -right after I gave him praise as a manager during his time at Cardiff during the tavern hangout – holy sh*t! Hmmm…on further reflection I retract my thoughts on naming him as a candidate for the KNT – lol!!!
Im actually shocked there isn’t more comment with regard to this Bert fallout. The racism post by a subscriber here hits home for me.
Some people describe his rejections as lazy. I think its more a complete lack of respect. No foreign manager can properly coach and really immersing himself in Korean football by managing remotely. Ridiculous attempt to fleece the Federation. A guy who clearly viewed the job for just the money, we need to steer clear from these kinds of choices. Yes I know…Hiddink was probably one of those too, but we are clearly not in the same situation as that time.
You’d never hear someone say that about managing Japan or anywhere else for that matter (managing remotely).
KFA approached him or at least I hope they had knowledge of Bert’s wish to do majority of his work in Europe (and at his home). Bert commuted back and forth between Holland and Germany when he was the manager of Hamburg.
I appreciate your comments everyone on my first comment. And yes, I did hear about the Moody + Mackay situation at Cardiff involving Kim Bo Kyung… honestly, being not simply tolerant, but inclusive of international football players is an attitude that coaches, managers, etc. really need to take on. That’s an imperative.
Honestly, it was sort of an ironic coincidence. We talk about racism being a problem and then another example, the epitome of what we agree should NOT be happening, and feared was…